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Anon Deleted Posts : Location : Status : Offline |
Strange starting problems I'm running out of ideas...I've always had problems with batteries running flat on my van, but have finally solved them after many years of false leads. Now I've got a starting problem that definitely can't be due to the battery. I crank over the engine and it turns very slowly, maybe one rev per 0.5 seconds. If i'm lucky it fires, if not, it's had it and I have to bump it. I've changed the starter motor a year or two ago, so it's new re-con. Tonight I substituted batteries for a brand new one from my work car, but the same result. Next I shorted with a jump lead from the battery negative to the engine block, same result. Next I shorted from the battery positive to the +ve terminal on the starter, but same result. That tells me it's not the cables, not the battery, and presumably not the starter... (or could it be dud...). If I jump start from another vehicle it turns over very fast and starts no problem. Any ideas what's going on? Cheers, Dave ---------------------- |
 Wed 13 May 2015 @ 20:54
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Anon Deleted Posts : Location : Status : Offline |
hard starting Hi Dave,the way you describe it,it sounds as though there is not the amps in the battery.Have you checked the timing?Cheers Jim---------------------- |
Wed 13 May 2015 @ 21:11
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Anon Deleted Posts : Location : Status : Offline |
timing perfect, once it runs, it's absolutely fine. Does sound like lacking amps, so that's why I spent over £200 on a odyssey gel battery that's well over the required spec. I'll try twinning two batteries together tomorrow to see if that helps. One thing I didn't say was that sometimes the engine cranks really fast (like it should), but if I stop cranking and re-turn the key, it generally goes really slow/not at all again.... ---------------------- |
Wed 13 May 2015 @ 21:59
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Anon Deleted Posts : Location : Status : Offline |
Staring problems I had the same problem with our Bedford CF Autosleeper CB22 that we have had now for 28 years without any problem till last year when we had the same problem as you, tried everything with no results, then purchased the modified geared starter used on Jaguar .Brilliant ,leave engine standing for month and touch starter and really swings engine over at speed even with half charged battery.No more starting problems. The only modification to the starter was one mounting hole on the original is threaded and had to be drilled out but then fits perfectly. |
Thu 14 May 2015 @ 00:11
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Anon Deleted Posts : Location : Status : Offline |
I would get hold of a test meter and look for volt drops. A fully charged battery should show around 12.5 volts at the posts on the battery (not on the battery lead clamps). Having checked you have that check what happened since between the heavy lead on the started and a good solid earth on the engine when someone else turns the key, my guess is it will be only a few volts, it should be no less than 9 with the engine cranking over. By selective checking with the voltmeter you can find where there is a voltage between two points where there should be noneed, I have found such a problem in the past between the battery lead and clamp, inside a battery isolator switch, and via a poor earth between the chassis and engine block. If you would like more help with this over the phone I would be happy to help. Mike |
Thu 14 May 2015 @ 11:11
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Anon Deleted Posts : Location : Status : Offline |
So what is different about this jag starter and which one should I look at? Voltage drop was my initial guess, hence putting jump cables to the starter/engine block direct from the battery terminals. I guess the one place that doesn't eliminate is from the battery post to the clamp. I have a volt meter mounted on the dash, and as I crank, the voltage drops to ~9V from memory (will have to look again when it's not pouring with rain. it's connected direct to the battery clamps. Should that give a dropped reading as I crank, or remain at 12.5 9as it does when engine off), or would you see a drop in voltage everywhere in the system as you crank 9bnot just at the starter terminals)? Thanks for the advice so far! ---------------------- |
Thu 14 May 2015 @ 17:43
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Anon Deleted Posts : Location : Status : Offline |
Hi Dale On load the battery terminal voltage will naturally drop to around 9 voltage, the starter may well be drawing in excess of 100 amps and it's this heavy current draw that will find any dodgy contact anywhere in the wiring and the resistance of those dodgy contacts will cause voltage to be lost across them. As I said before, if the problem is a volt drop somewhere then the next step is to see what the voltage actually is at the starter motor when the engine is cranking over, should be around 9 volts. If less than 9 then begin to check with the meter to see where it's being lost and I would start with the meter across the earth post at the battery to the engine block, there should be zero volts between these points with the engine cranking. Next step, positive of battery to heavy terminal on starter (output side of the solenoid) This too should be zero volts. Mike |
Fri 15 May 2015 @ 07:04
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Anon Deleted Posts : Location : Status : Offline |
starting probs Hi Mi9ke,have you cleaned all of the conections including the earths.When I clean any 12 volt conections I put a touch of vasalen on them to help stop corrosion.Cheers Jim.---------------------- |
Fri 15 May 2015 @ 21:07
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Anon Deleted Posts : Location : Status : Offline |
Hello. Check the contacts in the solenoid are making cleanly. Assuming you have a pre engage starter the solenoid may not be operating fully so making weak contact across the terminals inside allowing resistance to build up. Using the jump pack as you said earlier may be giving more oomph to operate the solenoid with more travel so putting full power through. Andy ---------------------- |
Sat 16 May 2015 @ 11:06
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Anon Deleted Posts : Location : Status : Offline |
The Jaguar starter has gears to give a different ratio so will turn a heavy engine with no effort, they fit CFs perfectly as the flang ls the same and so is the plnlon, the supplying firm drills the one flange hole that is threaded ready for fitting. ---------------------- |
Sun 17 May 2015 @ 23:54
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Anon Deleted Posts : Location : Status : Offline |
I replaced the positive battery terminal and think i've made a step improvement. Cut away the exposed wire and clamped to a new bit of wire to get a better contact. We holidayed all last week and only had one no-start. It was a hot-restart after the van had stood for ~1 hour. I think I made the mistake of pulling out the choke. It span fast for ~10 seconds then ran out of power to turn the engine. What's the normal time for a stadard battery to turn a 2.3L engine if it won't fire? I'm sure i've had it nearer 1/2 minute or more before? What's the part number/supplier of the Jag part, and if it's geared down, does that mean it turns the engine slower, therefore less chance of it firing? Cheers, Dave ---------------------- |
Tue 26 May 2015 @ 14:00
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Anon Deleted Posts : Location : Status : Offline |
Battery Hi Dave,it sounds to me as though your battery is under powered.Mine will turn my 2.3 over for a good few times before it starts to slow down,the only thing that slows my starting is if the petrol runs back down the tube.I have installed an electric pump to help on start.Cheers Jim.---------------------- |
Wed 27 May 2015 @ 21:52
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Anon Deleted Posts : Location : Status : Offline |
starting probs Hi Dave,I have done some checking with my local Euro parts.They say that the 2.3 sloper engine needs a 110 amph battery.I alos checked my van and mine is 105amph,so mine is almost there.Cheers+Beers,Jim.---------------------- |
Fri 05 Jun 2015 @ 17:54
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Anon Deleted Posts : Location : Status : Offline |
So I ran new wire from the battery to the starter and replaced the negative and wired it direct to the starter motor mounting bolts to completely eliminate any chance of bad earthing through the seat base or anywhere else. No improvement. Last week bought a brand new starter from Ray Wild, see this post http://www.bedford-cf.co.uk/mboard/thread.php?id=4700&title=starters%20and%20alternators It's from an 8 Cylinder Jag with the mounting holes machined out, and has the major advantage of having a 3:1 ratio drive gear so the engine spins at three times the normal rate relative to the startor motor electrics. The van now turns over at previously unthought of speeds, starts instantly, and everything's great! ---------------------- |
Mon 17 Aug 2015 @ 08:00
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