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Anon
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Electrical connections

Hello all

This question is about the standard of electrical sockets provided in english campsites:

I suspect the 16 A sockets are according to British Standard, i.e. 3 rectangular shaped holes, while the DIN or CE Standard are with 3 round holes ( both system s being for Ph. N + hearth)

Thus: are the campsites equiped with conversion system to accept "continental" connection, or else shall I be wise to purchase a conversion socket before to reach Great Britain ?

Those conversions are not jamming the shelves in shops around here...

Thanks to advise, I'm busy on the snag list before putting on the road for Easter meeting.

All the best

;]

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Wed 15 Mar 2006 @ 16:43 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anon
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Hi Maurice.

Hope you and your family are keeping fine.
If you can send me a photo of your plug and then I will make you one for your van.

All the best

Cyril

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Wed 15 Mar 2006 @ 17:55 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anon
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Hiya Maurice,

the outlets used at camp sites are more like the industrial sockets we use, coded blue for 240V, round plug with 3 round pins

Heres a picture



I would imagine that is more like if not identical to what you mean by "continental"

Take care

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Wed 15 Mar 2006 @ 18:38 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anon
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Hi Cyril
I wish my CF280 would kick off as rapidly as you do
Thanks very much but as you will see, there is no problem anymore...

Hello Tibbsey

That's it! Your picture shows the connector we have here in ports or campsites. I have nothing to worry, my camper is equiped.

Thanks to both of you and see you soon

all the best

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Wed 15 Mar 2006 @ 19:59 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anon
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Hi Maurice.
I think I have read some where the the wire is wirerd up the other way to use, not sure Tibbsey will corect me im sure.

If you look at the plug as the picktur shows the big pin at top our + goes to the small pin on the left and the - goes to the small pin on the right and the earth goes to the big pin at the top.I may be rong but I can check it when you get here at easter

All the best

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Wed 15 Mar 2006 @ 21:01 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anon
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It's supposed to be but I remember reading on Motorhome facts forums that some French sites occaisionally have the polarity the other way round.
To be awkward!

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Wed 15 Mar 2006 @ 21:53 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anon
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Hi Dubzi.

Have been intuch with the caravan shop and they sale the adapters for this and a tester to check for the polarity so that you don't have to change the wireing when you go abroad.

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Thu 16 Mar 2006 @ 11:03 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anon
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Though I would bare in mind that you could buy a plug, socket, length of wire and multimeter for around about the £10-15 mark, so dont let the caravan shop rip you off if they try to
Though Im sure their rig would be easier to use and save some work

after all camping is not really my area of expertise!

Though thinking about it polarity surly would only make a difference if it was a DC circuit, being as AC has both positive and negative peaks? Sure ive probably missed the point somewhere along the line! Yeah just checked that with my generator test rig in the lab, I have 2 fly leads hanging out of a 13A plug (mmm nice), it reads +245 which ever way around the leads are plugged into the meter
Now im confused at how these plugs can be wired wrong, unless its something related to how the three phase system is set up in the specific country?!
I will look into it

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Thu 16 Mar 2006 @ 12:34 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Colin Birch
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The voltage will be the same no matter which way around live & neutral are conected. The only problem comes with things that have a single pole on/off switch. The switch should be fitted to the live. If the L & N are reversed the unit has a permanent live feed. The only time this is really important is if there's a short to earth in the unit while it's turned off (the fuse will now be in the switched off neutral line so won't blow) or if you go pulling things apart while plugged in.

Basically if the L & N are reversed just unplug when not in use - a good practice with most appliances anyway.

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Colin Birch - CF-UK Admin
Pontypridd, S.Wales
The Bedford CF Web Site
http://www.cf-uk.co.uk

Thu 16 Mar 2006 @ 13:05 View Colin Birch   Email Colin Birch   Colin Birch Home Page   Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anon
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Yep thats what the information I have found has said, here we only switch the +ve and in Europe they switch +ve and -ve

The bottom line seems to be that because in Europe both are switched there are "never" any problems raised from whichever way around appliences are connected, thus there is less strict controls on which way around the sockets are wired.
So back to the beginning of the thread, Maurice should be fine where ever he goes so long as they have the correct IEC socket since his electrical system should already be set up to be safe however it is connected to the mains

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Thu 16 Mar 2006 @ 14:03 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anon
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Yes

- the change in polarity is not very important for AC and it is often done by careless electrical contractors. By the way, that's the reason why all equipments using low DC are equiped with a Weatston bridge if they are connected to the city mains.

- The + is left side in France (if ground is down looking at the socket)
This is the same with hot water on taps

(Who said that French are awkward?...This is awkward! :-))

- Colin is right about switching the neutral, this appens mainly for lighting fixtures, for the same reason as above (careless...). As consultant in building trade, I faced this problem very often.

- I will have no problem in england


Thanks to all of you

:*

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Thu 16 Mar 2006 @ 16:11 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anon
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Hi All.

As colin said it does not mater witch wy round but if you look at the meter it will tell you witch is live.

If you wont to test to see if it makes any diferance try and conect you batt on your van the rong way round and see what happens,That will make you shasay live and when you tuch the van you will get a kick,that is wy years ago thay chang it from + earth to - earth.

It is the same with AC try and swop you wire on your TV and blug it in.

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Thu 16 Mar 2006 @ 17:51 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Colin Birch
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I wouldn't try connecting the battery around the wrong way unless you want to replace an assortment of electrical equipment in your CF. Things like the radio etc do not like reverse polarity.

Maurice, your hot water taps are live??

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Colin Birch - CF-UK Admin
Pontypridd, S.Wales
The Bedford CF Web Site
http://www.cf-uk.co.uk

Thu 16 Mar 2006 @ 21:20 View Colin Birch   Email Colin Birch   Colin Birch Home Page   Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Colin Birch
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ECU in a Bedford CF??? Well, it would kill the electronic ignition.

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Colin Birch - CF-UK Admin
Pontypridd, S.Wales
The Bedford CF Web Site
http://www.cf-uk.co.uk

Thu 16 Mar 2006 @ 21:37 View Colin Birch   Email Colin Birch   Colin Birch Home Page   Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anon
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You are absolutly right, but a car battery is 12V DC, the mains is 240V AC.

The voltage level is given as a level referenced to zero volts, in a DC circuit the voltage remains positive and the current in a fixed direction (direct). If you connect it the other way around you will read -12V with respect to zero and the current will flow in the opposite direction

AC on the other hand alternates positive and negative, 240V actually is an average of the peak voltage (RMS), the current alternates +ve to -ve to +ve to -ve, if you connect it the other way around it alternates -ve to +ve to -ve to +ve... exactly the same as if you flipped the switch 0.01 seconds later

You are absolutly right a car system would not like it one bit if you flipped the polarity, but that is a whole different ball game, mains voltage swaps polarity 100 times per second (half a 50Hz cycle)
As for the TV, well have you ever come accross what is known as a "figure of 8" connector? its the usual one you see on the back of portable radios... my DVD player also has one! What is stopping you from putting that around the wrong way? Does it make the CD spin backwards? try putting the batterys in back to front and see what happens

Not trying to upset or belittle anyone, just saying, if anyone wants to disagree go ahead, I may have missed something

Take care all

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Thu 16 Mar 2006 @ 21:47 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Colin Birch
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Tibbsey wrote:
You are absolutly right, but a car battery is 12V DC, the mains is 240V AC.


To be precise, as of 1 Jan 1995 the UK became 230V +10% -6%
:p

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Colin Birch - CF-UK Admin
Pontypridd, S.Wales
The Bedford CF Web Site
http://www.cf-uk.co.uk

Thu 16 Mar 2006 @ 22:16 View Colin Birch   Email Colin Birch   Colin Birch Home Page   Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anon
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true Colin! Interesting asside though is that;

230 + 10% = 253V
230 - 6% = 216.2V

thus we who were generating at 240V are within the limits and those who were at 220V are also still within the limits... bit of a nonsence really

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Thu 16 Mar 2006 @ 22:30 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Colin Birch
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That's why the tolerances were set at those levels. The UK had a nominal 240V but had to reduce to 230V to bring it inline with EU regs. The expense involved at sub stations etc to bring us into line would run into silly figures so a 'loose' tolerence meant that we could conply and yet do nothing. With losses in cabling etc it's going to be all over the shop anyway.

BTW, until last year I worked for one of the UKs leading manufacturer of small sub station transformers - the type that would either be pole mounted or sit in a big cabinet at the corner of your street. If you knew how they were built you wouldn't walk anywhere near them. Saw a video of one of them exploding - frightening.

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Colin Birch - CF-UK Admin
Pontypridd, S.Wales
The Bedford CF Web Site
http://www.cf-uk.co.uk

Thu 16 Mar 2006 @ 22:45 View Colin Birch   Email Colin Birch   Colin Birch Home Page   Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
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