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Anon
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Exhaust mangling on modern(ish) vehicles...

A few days ago the dreaded rattle started again in my car....... Which means a broken Catalytic Converter. It still does what it's supposed to, but by rattling it breaks more and more until it stops doing what it's supposed to. What's even worse, it could rattle itself loose and actually block the exhaust, rendering the car unusable until repaired..

There are two serious problems however, on the road to repair. The first one being the cost of catalytic converters. I have managed to find a guy who does cheap repairs by cutting the housing open, removing the old converter, and adding a used one in, whatever he can get cheap, and welding it up again. He charges around 50 pounds for that. Only this leads to one more problem, the fact that this guy is 3500 miles from here.

The second, and most serious issue, is access to the catalytic converter. The exhaust is one-piece, from the manifold to the end. So there is the exhaust manifold, a flange there, and the rest of the exhaust, including the catalytic converter and silencer, is one-piece. The worst part is that to get to the exhaust manifold flange, you need to remove the steering rack and generally half the vehicle. Then to remove the rear part, you need to get rid of the fuel tank and rear suspension.

So my inspiration suggests the following plan of action:

Cut the catalytic converter out, at about 3-4 inches from each end. Remove the clamps from the rear pipe, hoping that it can be lowered enough to be worked on, without having to remove half the vehicle. Then weld a flange on both the pipe and rear part of the catalytic converter housing, so these can be mated together using the flange.

On the front part of the catalytic converter, weld a sleeve, with a slot cut across it so it can be tightened with a U-clamp. So the front part of the catalytic converter would mate with the front pipe using that sleeve, and exhaust paste.

So, to put it back together, I would fit the front sleeve mating first, and then bring the rear exhaust pipe up and bolt the flange on.

I would then build a straight piece of pipe with the sleeve and flange, so if the catalytic converter completely fails on the way to the repair guy, I can at least fit that by the roadside to get me somewhere where I can park and fix it without needing to be towed.

Would that work or would it be too leaky? Would it be better to add two flanges instead of a flange and sleeve? Also, I like this idea because the cheap repair guy's repairs use catalytic elements that are already well-used, therefore they WILL break again at some point. But it beats the 800 pounds I was quoted for a new one, or the 200 pounds for a used same one.

I basically just need to find a way to be able to get the catalytic converter out easily. Any suggestions very welcome.

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Sat 02 Oct 2010 @ 21:38 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anon
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whats your car as most cats we fitt are about £80 plus fitting

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Sat 02 Oct 2010 @ 23:02 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anon
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hi have you looked on ebay or 1 of the breaker yards dont know if this helps but worth a look cheers graham,

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Sat 02 Oct 2010 @ 23:03 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anon
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It's a Seat Leon, mk 1, year 2000, 1.4 Petrol. 80 pounds for a new cat??? That's pretty good! Dealer wants 800 to order a new one for me to fit myself! Problem is, because of the access to the cat, fitting cost a lot more than the cat last time I had this done. That was about 5 years ago (when I wasn't confident enough to touch it myself), so at least it lasted this long, and it was a used cat I had fitted. But if I'm going to be replacing the damn thing every five years, I might as well make it an easy job so I can do it myself by the roadside without having to find a lift. Which is why I want flanges there.

Finding an affordable cat every five years doesn't scare me. Having to remove half the vehicle to weld it on is a bit over the top though..

I don't really trust ebay for a cat, as I can just as well stick mine on ebay when I remove it. It's only after it gets here that I'll find out if it rattles. Had a breaker yard quote me 200 pounds for it.

So would the idea with the flanges work? Or would the vibrations make it leak?
Sun 03 Oct 2010 @ 00:38 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anon
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hi didnt realise it as such a hard job,most scrapyards around here give a 30 day return but thats no good if youve got to do so much work, hope u find a good cheap solution,graham.

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Sun 03 Oct 2010 @ 01:16 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anon
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Get the cheap one and Bite the bullet and buy one at Gethins work place.

can you really see yourself with the same car in 5 years down the road, sounds like your overthinking this.

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Sun 03 Oct 2010 @ 09:56 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anon
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Gethin's sounds good.

Vowed never to spend much on exhausts since cornered into spending 250ish on a rear section for a Toyota Liteace some time ago.
Sun 03 Oct 2010 @ 11:34 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anon
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Oh yeah, I can definitely see myself with the same car even 20 years down the road, unless someone totals it in the meantime. I've driven it across the whole of Europe 14 times now, and it's quite modified from original spec. The handling is awesome and it's one of the most fuel-efficient cars to hit 125 mph. Wouldn't trade it for anything. It is my first car. It's looked after me and kept me alive in situations where it would be hard to believe I'm still alive, so I vowed to look after it, and keep it running, no matter what. Even if I end up buying 10 more cars, this one will stay.

As for overthinking the mods, yeah, I definitely am. Which is how the rest of them have ended up making it much more useful and easy to maintain. I hope to keep it up this way. Never had much exhaust experience though, as it's only been fairly recently that I got into welding myself.

If the cat could just pop off and on with 10 minutes of work, I could see myself just getting a couple of cheap ones, and whenever one goes, I can just pop one in. Besides, then I wouldn't need to even care if it's the same one. I can just fit a similar one, as long as I can make it fit in place.
Sun 03 Oct 2010 @ 14:09 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anon
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From memory some of the off roaders remove the cat and replace it with a straight pipe, aparantly its all to do with the year of the vehicle, some you can remove som you cant

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Mon 04 Oct 2010 @ 06:05 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anon
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I can get you a cat for under £100.00
There are 2 types that fit
Will see if I can get one nearer you so you don't have to
either travel or me post it

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Mon 04 Oct 2010 @ 09:36 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anon
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Wow, thanks for that Gethin! I was looking online at parts suppliers near me, and I found a few cats at decent prices, but some of them had pictures and the fit is quite different to mine, although it is for the same model/engine. I'm wondering if UK models have a different exhaust because of the steering on the other side..

I'll have to have a better look underneath the car and figure this out.

Do you think it is feasible to weld flanges in, instead of welding the new cat on directly, so it can be easily removed whenever I need to replace it?
Mon 04 Oct 2010 @ 12:21 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anon
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When the cat goes on the American it'll be Winchmans straight thro' pipe for us.
Mon 04 Oct 2010 @ 14:58 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anon
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If its pre 1992 then you dont need it, but after 1992 you need a cat fitted and in working order to pass the emissions test.

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Mon 04 Oct 2010 @ 17:15 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anon
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Ok, had a good look underneath, and as I thought, there's no flange on the cat. There's a sleeve to connect it to the rear pipe, and the front is welded onto a pipe that connects straight to the exhaust manifold. Also, there's no sensor anywhere near the cat. The only sensor on the exhaust is the lambda sensor before the cat, after the exhaust manifold.

Could it be a case of Britain having different emissions laws back in 2000 than the rest of the EU? As far as I've seen, Leons, same model same year, for the British market, have a cat with a flange in front, a sleeve in the back, and a sensor right after the cat. Mine has the provision for a sensor after the cat, but it's blanked off.
Mon 04 Oct 2010 @ 18:41 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anon
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you get a blanking nut with the cats so that you can use it rather than a sensor.

best way would be to take the cat to your local motorfactors and see what they can match up.

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Mon 04 Oct 2010 @ 19:10 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anon
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Tue 05 Oct 2010 @ 19:39 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anon
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Wow, thanks for that Gethin!

Had a very close look today (vehicle lifted) and as I was thinking, the Leon indeed has a different exhaust..

The first piece seems about right, but there is no flange to the cat. The cat is welded on to the first piece and can only come out as one piece, after removing the first piece from the manifold and removing the steering rack to get it out of there. Then the sleeve is indeed there, the next piece is indeed there, but the next piece goes straight to the rear silencer, with no extra sleeve. Also, the rear silencer does not look straight to the back, it is on its side.

So it might be quite handy, whenever it is that I get a new cat, to get the front piece with the flange as well, if it will fit.

But, the good news is that the problem is NOT the cat! While messing about with it, I realized that the noise comes further down, and is actually the little support bracket on 105-109, right after the sleeve. It has snapped off (normally welded on) and was rubbing against it. Temporary fix by just clamping it on the pipe. Rattling stopped. Cat doesn't make any noise. If it returns, I'll just give it a couple of welds. I only need to remove a small crossmember piece to do that. It's got a heatshield already there and no brake or fuel lines anywhere near it. Should be easy to arc-weld it with the exhaust still in place.

Thanks a lot!
Wed 06 Oct 2010 @ 02:25 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
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